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	<title>Comments on: Black IPA: too subtle for us</title>
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	<description>Going on about beer and pubs since 2007</description>
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		<title>By: Are attempts to innovate futile? &#124; Boak and Bailey&#039;s Beer Blog</title>
		<link>http://boakandbailey.com/2012/06/black-ipa-too-subtle-for-us/#comment-13776</link>
		<dc:creator>Are attempts to innovate futile? &#124; Boak and Bailey&#039;s Beer Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jun 2012 09:34:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boakandbailey.com/?p=5393#comment-13776</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] We can&#8217;t, in all honesty, say we&#8217;ve loved many self-declared innovative beers &#8212; nothing barrel-aged, for example, has made our list of favourites; our mouths do now water at the idea of an Islay lambic; and we&#8217;re nonplussed by the very idea of black IPA. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] We can&#8217;t, in all honesty, say we&#8217;ve loved many self-declared innovative beers &#8212; nothing barrel-aged, for example, has made our list of favourites; our mouths do now water at the idea of an Islay lambic; and we&#8217;re nonplussed by the very idea of black IPA. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Kieran Haslett-Moore</title>
		<link>http://boakandbailey.com/2012/06/black-ipa-too-subtle-for-us/#comment-13656</link>
		<dc:creator>Kieran Haslett-Moore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2012 09:25:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boakandbailey.com/?p=5393#comment-13656</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[MikeMcGWirral  that is indeed the way some/alot of American brewers are doing it. Many from this part of the world and I suspect from the UK are mashing dark grains right through.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MikeMcGWirral  that is indeed the way some/alot of American brewers are doing it. Many from this part of the world and I suspect from the UK are mashing dark grains right through.</p>
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		<title>By: MikeMcGWirral</title>
		<link>http://boakandbailey.com/2012/06/black-ipa-too-subtle-for-us/#comment-13655</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeMcGWirral</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2012 09:19:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boakandbailey.com/?p=5393#comment-13655</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The dark malt I think used in many Black IPAs is a dehusked chocolate malt &quot;Carafa Special&quot; from Bamberg master malz-makers - Weyerman.

http://www.weyermann.de/eng/produkte.asp?idkat=19&amp;umenue=yes&amp;idmenue=37&amp;sprache=2
&quot;our unique de-husked roasted barley malt adds aroma, color and body, with a mild. smooth flavor&quot;

With the husk gone, they won&#039;t give so much of the harsher roasty flavours associated with normal choc &amp; black malts or roast barley.

In terms of their use in Black IPA brewing, the norm seems to be to not mash in with the Carafa, but to add it later to the top of the mash, just prior to sparging (or even later) so as to accentuate colour over flavour. 

I would say these malts do however still add some flavour, a light coffee/choc note, which in the few examples I&#039;ve tasted works well.

I&#039;m of the opinion that if a Black IPA has no discernible dark malt flavour, then it&#039;s a bit of an empty gimmick.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The dark malt I think used in many Black IPAs is a dehusked chocolate malt &#8220;Carafa Special&#8221; from Bamberg master malz-makers &#8211; Weyerman.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.weyermann.de/eng/produkte.asp?idkat=19&#038;umenue=yes&#038;idmenue=37&#038;sprache=2" rel="nofollow">http://www.weyermann.de/eng/produkte.asp?idkat=19&#038;umenue=yes&#038;idmenue=37&#038;sprache=2</a><br />
&#8220;our unique de-husked roasted barley malt adds aroma, color and body, with a mild. smooth flavor&#8221;</p>
<p>With the husk gone, they won&#8217;t give so much of the harsher roasty flavours associated with normal choc &amp; black malts or roast barley.</p>
<p>In terms of their use in Black IPA brewing, the norm seems to be to not mash in with the Carafa, but to add it later to the top of the mash, just prior to sparging (or even later) so as to accentuate colour over flavour. </p>
<p>I would say these malts do however still add some flavour, a light coffee/choc note, which in the few examples I&#8217;ve tasted works well.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m of the opinion that if a Black IPA has no discernible dark malt flavour, then it&#8217;s a bit of an empty gimmick.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://boakandbailey.com/2012/06/black-ipa-too-subtle-for-us/#comment-13650</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2012 08:33:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boakandbailey.com/?p=5393#comment-13650</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Black but not roasty&quot; sounds like bollocks to me (there&#039;s a poll in there); there is no &#039;black&#039; taste. I think there&#039;s a distinct thing that modern IPAs do - a certain combination of cold-tea bitterness and hoppy astringency - and a distinct thing that stouts do (&#039;roastiness&#039;, probably), and when you get them both together you&#039;re drinking a black IPA. Saltaire Cascadian Black is a good example.

Styles on the dark side of beer are hopelessly broken, if you ask me. I&#039;ve got a growing list of dark beers that I genuinely don&#039;t know how to classify - was it a dark old ale, a sweetish porter, a strong dark mild or just a &lt;b&gt;very&lt;/b&gt; dark bitter?

Incidentally, when I googled Cascadian Black to check the brewery the first hit was &quot;Cascadian Black Metal is bollocks&quot;. Just think, if you picked the right bar you could be listening to a style of music that doesn&#039;t exist while drinking a style of beer that doesn&#039;t exist!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Black but not roasty&#8221; sounds like bollocks to me (there&#8217;s a poll in there); there is no &#8216;black&#8217; taste. I think there&#8217;s a distinct thing that modern IPAs do &#8211; a certain combination of cold-tea bitterness and hoppy astringency &#8211; and a distinct thing that stouts do (&#8216;roastiness&#8217;, probably), and when you get them both together you&#8217;re drinking a black IPA. Saltaire Cascadian Black is a good example.</p>
<p>Styles on the dark side of beer are hopelessly broken, if you ask me. I&#8217;ve got a growing list of dark beers that I genuinely don&#8217;t know how to classify &#8211; was it a dark old ale, a sweetish porter, a strong dark mild or just a <b>very</b> dark bitter?</p>
<p>Incidentally, when I googled Cascadian Black to check the brewery the first hit was &#8220;Cascadian Black Metal is bollocks&#8221;. Just think, if you picked the right bar you could be listening to a style of music that doesn&#8217;t exist while drinking a style of beer that doesn&#8217;t exist!</p>
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		<title>By: Bailey</title>
		<link>http://boakandbailey.com/2012/06/black-ipa-too-subtle-for-us/#comment-13642</link>
		<dc:creator>Bailey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2012 07:24:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boakandbailey.com/?p=5393#comment-13642</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for recommendations, all. If we were served any of those beers blind, would we taste them and say: &quot;Ah, this is a black IPA!&quot; Or would we just think they were stouts or porters?

Beefy -- we weren&#039;t in note-taking mode so didn&#039;t catch the name, I&#039;m afraid.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for recommendations, all. If we were served any of those beers blind, would we taste them and say: &#8220;Ah, this is a black IPA!&#8221; Or would we just think they were stouts or porters?</p>
<p>Beefy &#8212; we weren&#8217;t in note-taking mode so didn&#8217;t catch the name, I&#8217;m afraid.</p>
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		<title>By: Wee Beefy</title>
		<link>http://boakandbailey.com/2012/06/black-ipa-too-subtle-for-us/#comment-13619</link>
		<dc:creator>Wee Beefy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 23:01:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boakandbailey.com/?p=5393#comment-13619</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I suspect one can&#039;t taste colour, but KHM&#039;s taste description at the top seems to accurately describe the positive characteristics of the better Black IPA&#039;s I&#039;ve tried, notably Magic Rock Dark Arts and Red Willow Faithless. 

Is that Coastal one called Riptide btw? Only I had it at the commercial fest in Chap and it wa really nice. Thing is (obviously not supping with my alalytical blogging head on) I never gave its IPA vs Porter/stout credentials a second thought - it was just the best beer on when I was there!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suspect one can&#8217;t taste colour, but KHM&#8217;s taste description at the top seems to accurately describe the positive characteristics of the better Black IPA&#8217;s I&#8217;ve tried, notably Magic Rock Dark Arts and Red Willow Faithless. </p>
<p>Is that Coastal one called Riptide btw? Only I had it at the commercial fest in Chap and it wa really nice. Thing is (obviously not supping with my alalytical blogging head on) I never gave its IPA vs Porter/stout credentials a second thought &#8211; it was just the best beer on when I was there!</p>
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		<title>By: Velky Al</title>
		<link>http://boakandbailey.com/2012/06/black-ipa-too-subtle-for-us/#comment-13611</link>
		<dc:creator>Velky Al</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 21:40:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boakandbailey.com/?p=5393#comment-13611</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[my views on &quot;black IPA&quot; or any other black version of a traditionally pale beer, are well documented, but how exactly does one taste colour?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>my views on &#8220;black IPA&#8221; or any other black version of a traditionally pale beer, are well documented, but how exactly does one taste colour?</p>
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		<title>By: Olsta</title>
		<link>http://boakandbailey.com/2012/06/black-ipa-too-subtle-for-us/#comment-13605</link>
		<dc:creator>Olsta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 19:49:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boakandbailey.com/?p=5393#comment-13605</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Another case of Americans taking credit for a style that is pointless/a bastardisation of a style that existed a long time ago. Same goes for double IPA. What a load of shit.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another case of Americans taking credit for a style that is pointless/a bastardisation of a style that existed a long time ago. Same goes for double IPA. What a load of shit.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://boakandbailey.com/2012/06/black-ipa-too-subtle-for-us/#comment-13593</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 16:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boakandbailey.com/?p=5393#comment-13593</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Conqueror by Windsor and Eton is well worth trying.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Conqueror by Windsor and Eton is well worth trying.</p>
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		<title>By: Craig</title>
		<link>http://boakandbailey.com/2012/06/black-ipa-too-subtle-for-us/#comment-13586</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 11:31:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boakandbailey.com/?p=5393#comment-13586</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My issue with Black IPA is that I&#039;ve never had one that I thought was really good.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My issue with Black IPA is that I&#8217;ve never had one that I thought was really good.</p>
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