Comments on: Pubs are one thing, beer another

By: Martyn Cornell

Martyn Cornell — Wed, 05 Sep 2012 16:25:08 +0000

“The 1960s Batsford guides to pubs (London, Sussex, East Anglia etc) mention regular beers and then ‘special’ beers.

Yes, but, interestingly, they list what would still have been cask beers indiscriminately with keg beers and, AFAIR, make no effort to distinguish between them.

RedNew – I’d say the folk music analogy was pretty damned exact. And I’ve been following folk music since before Camra existed.

Among drinkers of my father’s generation (and he grew up in West London in the 1930s), Fuller’s had a very poor reputation. My maternal grandfather (North London, pre-First World War) and his mates would travel a long way for a pub serving Bass. I doubt there has ever been a time when pubs haven’t been chosen on the basis of the preceived quality of the beer sold in them.

By: Bailey

Bailey — Wed, 05 Sep 2012 15:55:15 +0000

OK, so Campbell says: “In commending public houses to others there are difficulties which need to be realized and accounted for. It is not especially valuable to advise you to go to the Pig and Whistle in Dock Street because the beer is good. The beer is probably ‘Tomnoddy’s’ and the same as is sold in a thousand other public houses, and is in first-class condition in seven hundred of them. So advice is given, the beer and service not being below average, on the basis of some particular quality of the public house. Such qualities are personal things.”

By: Phil

Phil — Thu, 30 Aug 2012 16:27:57 +0000

'Tis true, I'm the sole prop. of 52 Folk Songs and the veteran of more "what is folk?" threads on Mudcat than I care to remember, mostly arguing against a great friend of mine (who's an utter arse on that subject); I'm probably only a couple of degrees from Nev in real life. Come to think of it, Nev, didn't I see Matthew Edwards on your blog? He's a singaround mate of mine, although we're not related as far as I know. Anyhoo - faulty in what way?

By: Bailey

Bailey — Thu, 30 Aug 2012 16:03:39 +0000

Phil knows a bit too…

By: RedNev

RedNev — Thu, 30 Aug 2012 15:52:25 +0000

Folk music is something I know about and your analogy is faulty.

By: zgoda

zgoda — Wed, 29 Aug 2012 15:30:21 +0000

I’m just sitting in such pub, great place with crap beer. Would it be the same with great collection of craft beer? I guess not, most of locals here drink the same brand since, I don’t know, 25 years, would they want to change their minds and start drinking obscure brands for much higher, premium price? It’s flavour and aroma that makes great beer, but it’s people that makes place a truly great one.

By: Alan

Alan — Wed, 29 Aug 2012 11:03:14 +0000

Another thing you may want to try is reading what the same people were writing about subjects other than beer at the time. Richard Boston’s collection of essays “Starkness At Noon” should be easy to lay a hand on.

By: Curmudgeon

Curmudgeon — Wed, 29 Aug 2012 08:20:13 +0000

Yes, I make that exception in the post. Around here, our four local family brewers plus Sam Smith’s do still have a strong contingent of traditional customers who drink cask beer. There are other similar pockets around the country, such as Banks’s Moild drinkers in the West Midlands. But I don’t think it’s really typical of the country as a whole.

By: Bailey

Bailey — Wed, 29 Aug 2012 07:52:49 +0000

Thanks for comments, all.

John — we’ve got Campbell on our wishlist after you mentioned it the other week. Waiting to see it at a reasonable price, though.

A general point: I think our point was that none of the books we had at hand made as much mention of beer as we might have expected — we certainly don’t claim to have exhaustively reviewed every book out there published between 1950-1970!

People were certainly discerning about beer, but (we think — citations needed…) not necessarily critical. They knew what they liked and drank it, without further analysis or discussion. Citing fiction isn’t ideal, but Saturday Night and Sunday Morning by Alan Sillitoe has a great exchange in which Arthur Seaton’s mate rejects a pub because he’s ‘never reckoned much to the ale’.

For what it’s worth, the Beatles were rum and Coke drinkers in the mid-sixties (when they weren’t on LSD-laced coffee) and they seemed to have a pretty good idea of Where It Was At.

Phil — love your extension of the folk music analogy. Feels like we’re on to something here.

By: Alan

Alan — Tue, 28 Aug 2012 22:43:25 +0000

See, that is a great word and I think you caught that connection – what is genuine. Fits with all the other movements of the era, too, even if not as successful as CAMRA.