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	<title>Comments on: Beer Geekery Inflation</title>
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	<description>Going on about beer and pubs since 2007</description>
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		<title>By: Curmudgeon</title>
		<link>http://boakandbailey.com/2012/08/what-will-excite-a-british-beer-geek/#comment-19891</link>
		<dc:creator>Curmudgeon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Aug 2012 23:14:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boakandbailey.com/?p=5686#comment-19891</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In the established venues, I agree with you. Much of the folk memory of poor cask beer stems from the early days of the &quot;real ale revival&quot; when it was put into lots of pubs that had no experience of serving it. Having said that, in the past ten years or so there has been a marked improvement in typical quality at the bar. Cask Marque must take some of the credit for that, and my local brewery Robinson&#039;s have run a well-publicised cellar quality scheme. Going back to the 80s, Robinson&#039;s were notorious for variable quality.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the established venues, I agree with you. Much of the folk memory of poor cask beer stems from the early days of the &#8220;real ale revival&#8221; when it was put into lots of pubs that had no experience of serving it. Having said that, in the past ten years or so there has been a marked improvement in typical quality at the bar. Cask Marque must take some of the credit for that, and my local brewery Robinson&#8217;s have run a well-publicised cellar quality scheme. Going back to the 80s, Robinson&#8217;s were notorious for variable quality.</p>
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		<title>By: jesusjohn</title>
		<link>http://boakandbailey.com/2012/08/what-will-excite-a-british-beer-geek/#comment-19865</link>
		<dc:creator>jesusjohn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Aug 2012 10:37:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boakandbailey.com/?p=5686#comment-19865</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I also wonder the effect of Cask Marque. I had a very cloak-and-dagger chat with a CM inspector a year or two ago in which he essentially suggested they gave out the accreditation willy-nilly to begin with (hence its reputation as being next to useless), but have increasingly been niggardly in re-awarding the status (with pubs not wishing to lose it, they follow the recommendations and the beer quality improves).

I don&#039;t know if this is true, but - again, anecdotally - I&#039;ve noticed Cask Marque being more and more reliable as an indicator of quality after what was, all told, a shoddy start.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also wonder the effect of Cask Marque. I had a very cloak-and-dagger chat with a CM inspector a year or two ago in which he essentially suggested they gave out the accreditation willy-nilly to begin with (hence its reputation as being next to useless), but have increasingly been niggardly in re-awarding the status (with pubs not wishing to lose it, they follow the recommendations and the beer quality improves).</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know if this is true, but &#8211; again, anecdotally &#8211; I&#8217;ve noticed Cask Marque being more and more reliable as an indicator of quality after what was, all told, a shoddy start.</p>
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		<title>By: jesusjohn</title>
		<link>http://boakandbailey.com/2012/08/what-will-excite-a-british-beer-geek/#comment-19864</link>
		<dc:creator>jesusjohn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Aug 2012 10:34:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boakandbailey.com/?p=5686#comment-19864</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Considering I only started to drink in pubs in 1999/2000, from my anecdotal experience, the quality of cellarmanship has vastly improved. The biggest drive of this, I believe, has been Wetherspoons. In the late 90s/early 00s, Wetherspoons had an excellent reputation for range but a bloody awful reputation for conditioning. Since about 2005, they&#039;ve clearly focussed relentlessly on cellar conditioning and the results speak for themselves. I&#039;d always prefer a pubby pub over a Spoons, but I now go into a Spoons expecting a very well kept pint from an interesting range.

But even elsewhere, I&#039;ve noticed better quality. I wonder, to some degree, if increased interest in cask has pushed volumes in decent pubs. As we all know, and as Tandie says himself &quot;volume encouraged good beer&quot; - and good beer encourages volume. A virtuous circle.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Considering I only started to drink in pubs in 1999/2000, from my anecdotal experience, the quality of cellarmanship has vastly improved. The biggest drive of this, I believe, has been Wetherspoons. In the late 90s/early 00s, Wetherspoons had an excellent reputation for range but a bloody awful reputation for conditioning. Since about 2005, they&#8217;ve clearly focussed relentlessly on cellar conditioning and the results speak for themselves. I&#8217;d always prefer a pubby pub over a Spoons, but I now go into a Spoons expecting a very well kept pint from an interesting range.</p>
<p>But even elsewhere, I&#8217;ve noticed better quality. I wonder, to some degree, if increased interest in cask has pushed volumes in decent pubs. As we all know, and as Tandie says himself &#8220;volume encouraged good beer&#8221; &#8211; and good beer encourages volume. A virtuous circle.</p>
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		<title>By: Bailey</title>
		<link>http://boakandbailey.com/2012/08/what-will-excite-a-british-beer-geek/#comment-19863</link>
		<dc:creator>Bailey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Aug 2012 08:44:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boakandbailey.com/?p=5686#comment-19863</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ah, yes, fair points.

I think we were reflecting on our own experience in the early &#039;00s when we got the opportunity to drink, say, Harvey&#039;s Sussex Best maybe twice a year, and so it took us ages to work out what it was meant to taste like and when it was off/on the turn. If you lived in London and only saw Thwaites as a guest beer at the Dive Bar every now and then, would you have known it was bad? And would you have been so excited to find something new you wouldn&#039;t care much anyway?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, yes, fair points.</p>
<p>I think we were reflecting on our own experience in the early &#8217;00s when we got the opportunity to drink, say, Harvey&#8217;s Sussex Best maybe twice a year, and so it took us ages to work out what it was meant to taste like and when it was off/on the turn. If you lived in London and only saw Thwaites as a guest beer at the Dive Bar every now and then, would you have known it was bad? And would you have been so excited to find something new you wouldn&#8217;t care much anyway?</p>
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		<title>By: Tandleman</title>
		<link>http://boakandbailey.com/2012/08/what-will-excite-a-british-beer-geek/#comment-19860</link>
		<dc:creator>Tandleman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Aug 2012 07:05:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boakandbailey.com/?p=5686#comment-19860</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[we have this suspicion that, in the 70s, people were much more tolerant of bad beer and beer in bad condition than they are today

Not at all. In the late 70s / early 80s cask beer was standard in the pubs of Allied, Bass, Courage, Greenalls and others. Can only really speak for the North, but a bad pint was rare indeed. Volume encouraged good beer. Whitbread who were much more laggardly in cask was where you&#039;d sometimes get a bad pint as they didn&#039;t have so much of it.  When you got a bad pint then people would know it.  I remember in a Higsons pub putting three pints of bitter down on the table only to have them snatched back by the landlord, who&#039;d spotted a haze on the beer from the bar. End of the barrel - pints exchanged.  There was generally higher standards of cellarmanship then.

Apart from these observations, what Martyn says.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>we have this suspicion that, in the 70s, people were much more tolerant of bad beer and beer in bad condition than they are today</p>
<p>Not at all. In the late 70s / early 80s cask beer was standard in the pubs of Allied, Bass, Courage, Greenalls and others. Can only really speak for the North, but a bad pint was rare indeed. Volume encouraged good beer. Whitbread who were much more laggardly in cask was where you&#8217;d sometimes get a bad pint as they didn&#8217;t have so much of it.  When you got a bad pint then people would know it.  I remember in a Higsons pub putting three pints of bitter down on the table only to have them snatched back by the landlord, who&#8217;d spotted a haze on the beer from the bar. End of the barrel &#8211; pints exchanged.  There was generally higher standards of cellarmanship then.</p>
<p>Apart from these observations, what Martyn says.</p>
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		<title>By: Martyn Cornell</title>
		<link>http://boakandbailey.com/2012/08/what-will-excite-a-british-beer-geek/#comment-19850</link>
		<dc:creator>Martyn Cornell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Aug 2012 02:18:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boakandbailey.com/?p=5686#comment-19850</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;we have this suspicion that, in the 70s, people were much more tolerant of bad beer and beer in bad condition than they are today&lt;/i&gt;

Hmmm - I&#039;m not sure tolerance of bad beer generally has declined. But I&#039;m not sure standards have improved, either: my recollection, looking back down four decades, is that in the early/mid 1970s, while choice was vastly poorer than today, where you found cask ale being served, it was more likely than in later times to be of reasonable quality, because the landlord had to actively want cask ale to get it from his supplier, rather than his supplier insisting he take it. Only when, eg, Watney/Grand Met acquired Ruddles and rammed cask beer into thousands of pubs did average standards decline sharply. That, however, may be an old git looking back at his youth through gold-coloured binoculars …]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>we have this suspicion that, in the 70s, people were much more tolerant of bad beer and beer in bad condition than they are today</i></p>
<p>Hmmm &#8211; I&#8217;m not sure tolerance of bad beer generally has declined. But I&#8217;m not sure standards have improved, either: my recollection, looking back down four decades, is that in the early/mid 1970s, while choice was vastly poorer than today, where you found cask ale being served, it was more likely than in later times to be of reasonable quality, because the landlord had to actively want cask ale to get it from his supplier, rather than his supplier insisting he take it. Only when, eg, Watney/Grand Met acquired Ruddles and rammed cask beer into thousands of pubs did average standards decline sharply. That, however, may be an old git looking back at his youth through gold-coloured binoculars …</p>
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		<title>By: Curmudgeon</title>
		<link>http://boakandbailey.com/2012/08/what-will-excite-a-british-beer-geek/#comment-19836</link>
		<dc:creator>Curmudgeon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Aug 2012 15:59:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boakandbailey.com/?p=5686#comment-19836</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, in the early 90s Marston&#039;s Pedigree was widely thought to have lost much of its former character, at much the same time as Marston&#039;s had signed a deal to get it a lot of Whitbread pubs.

There&#039;s a whole raft of food-oriented pub company pubs that tend to have the fashionable beer of the day (currently Doom Bar) but never seem to keep it well. I had some really poor Landlord in such a pub recently, btw]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, in the early 90s Marston&#8217;s Pedigree was widely thought to have lost much of its former character, at much the same time as Marston&#8217;s had signed a deal to get it a lot of Whitbread pubs.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a whole raft of food-oriented pub company pubs that tend to have the fashionable beer of the day (currently Doom Bar) but never seem to keep it well. I had some really poor Landlord in such a pub recently, btw</p>
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		<title>By: jesusjohn</title>
		<link>http://boakandbailey.com/2012/08/what-will-excite-a-british-beer-geek/#comment-19833</link>
		<dc:creator>jesusjohn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Aug 2012 14:51:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boakandbailey.com/?p=5686#comment-19833</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree with Mudgie that the more commonplace a beer is, the worse it is kept. I remember when there was all that media hoo-ha about Timmy Taylor Landlord being Madonna&#039;s favourite drop. Suddenly it was everywhere - and in my mind the beer became associated with mediocre pubs. Some years on, that has passed and I recognise it again (when well kept) as a super beer.

That said, I&#039;ve had very well kept GK IPA and never enjoyed it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Mudgie that the more commonplace a beer is, the worse it is kept. I remember when there was all that media hoo-ha about Timmy Taylor Landlord being Madonna&#8217;s favourite drop. Suddenly it was everywhere &#8211; and in my mind the beer became associated with mediocre pubs. Some years on, that has passed and I recognise it again (when well kept) as a super beer.</p>
<p>That said, I&#8217;ve had very well kept GK IPA and never enjoyed it.</p>
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		<title>By: Curmudgeon</title>
		<link>http://boakandbailey.com/2012/08/what-will-excite-a-british-beer-geek/#comment-19823</link>
		<dc:creator>Curmudgeon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Aug 2012 09:02:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boakandbailey.com/?p=5686#comment-19823</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[t wouldn&#039;t be too long before Harvey&#039;s Best and Tribute came to be dismissed as dull, boring and commonplace, though.

It may just be subjective, but I would also say that the more widely available a beer is, the less well it is kept on average.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>t wouldn&#8217;t be too long before Harvey&#8217;s Best and Tribute came to be dismissed as dull, boring and commonplace, though.</p>
<p>It may just be subjective, but I would also say that the more widely available a beer is, the less well it is kept on average.</p>
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		<title>By: Bailey</title>
		<link>http://boakandbailey.com/2012/08/what-will-excite-a-british-beer-geek/#comment-19822</link>
		<dc:creator>Bailey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Aug 2012 08:22:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boakandbailey.com/?p=5686#comment-19822</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[John H -- thanks for that. He&#039;s a great philosopher of our age, Mr G.

Martyn -- we have this suspicion that, in the 70s, people were much more tolerant of bad beer and beer in bad condition than they are today. What do you reckon?

Beer Nut -- that&#039;s interesting. Are you looking forward to 2011?

PF -- &#039;beer minimalist pub&#039; is a nice turn of phrase -- it implies a conscious decision to sell few beers, but good ones, in good nick.

Pete -- we&#039;re not ashamed to admit that we&#039;re suckers for novelty. We like Tribute, and we&#039;re always happy to drink it, but that doesn&#039;t mean we&#039;re not excited when we find something else on offer. It&#039;s an emotional rather than a logical thing.

Simon -- think we&#039;re probably in the same boat, especially since moving to Cornwall. Wonder if a future version of this chart might show a return to a happy medium between multi-tap madness and Watneyesque monopoly?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John H &#8212; thanks for that. He&#8217;s a great philosopher of our age, Mr G.</p>
<p>Martyn &#8212; we have this suspicion that, in the 70s, people were much more tolerant of bad beer and beer in bad condition than they are today. What do you reckon?</p>
<p>Beer Nut &#8212; that&#8217;s interesting. Are you looking forward to 2011?</p>
<p>PF &#8212; &#8216;beer minimalist pub&#8217; is a nice turn of phrase &#8212; it implies a conscious decision to sell few beers, but good ones, in good nick.</p>
<p>Pete &#8212; we&#8217;re not ashamed to admit that we&#8217;re suckers for novelty. We like Tribute, and we&#8217;re always happy to drink it, but that doesn&#8217;t mean we&#8217;re not excited when we find something else on offer. It&#8217;s an emotional rather than a logical thing.</p>
<p>Simon &#8212; think we&#8217;re probably in the same boat, especially since moving to Cornwall. Wonder if a future version of this chart might show a return to a happy medium between multi-tap madness and Watneyesque monopoly?</p>
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