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	<title>Comments on: Pinning down the Big Six</title>
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	<description>Going on about beer and pubs since 2007</description>
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		<title>By: Big breweries confused, middling ones confusing &#124; Boak and Bailey&#039;s Beer Blog</title>
		<link>http://boakandbailey.com/2012/10/pinning-down-the-big-six/#comment-24289</link>
		<dc:creator>Big breweries confused, middling ones confusing &#124; Boak and Bailey&#039;s Beer Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2012 10:55:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boakandbailey.com/?p=6016#comment-24289</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] The Big Six all had the DNA of family breweries, but had lost their humanity. Regional brewers, on the other hand, were only ever a step away from becoming bad guys themselves. A little growth spurt; a takeover here and a closure there; a little too heavy a hand with the brewery tie and&#8230; well, look at Greene King, who were heroes in the 1970s, but now seem to be villains. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The Big Six all had the DNA of family breweries, but had lost their humanity. Regional brewers, on the other hand, were only ever a step away from becoming bad guys themselves. A little growth spurt; a takeover here and a closure there; a little too heavy a hand with the brewery tie and&#8230; well, look at Greene King, who were heroes in the 1970s, but now seem to be villains. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Curmudgeon</title>
		<link>http://boakandbailey.com/2012/10/pinning-down-the-big-six/#comment-23358</link>
		<dc:creator>Curmudgeon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2012 21:47:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boakandbailey.com/?p=6016#comment-23358</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Interesting question - which provides more real choice for the consumer?

(a) 800 companies in the market, but the top 4 controlling 90%
(b) 400 companies in the market, but the top 4 controlling 75%
(c) 200 companies in the market, but the top 4 controlling 50%]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting question &#8211; which provides more real choice for the consumer?</p>
<p>(a) 800 companies in the market, but the top 4 controlling 90%<br />
(b) 400 companies in the market, but the top 4 controlling 75%<br />
(c) 200 companies in the market, but the top 4 controlling 50%</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Martyn Cornell</title>
		<link>http://boakandbailey.com/2012/10/pinning-down-the-big-six/#comment-23353</link>
		<dc:creator>Martyn Cornell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2012 20:43:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boakandbailey.com/?p=6016#comment-23353</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh, indeed: that&#039;s because Punch and Enterprise are basically about income streams, and the securitisation thereof, where the two most important income streams are rent, and beer bought cheap (from the brewer) and sold (to the tenant) dear. The actual sustainability of any individual pub doesn&#039;t matter much, because (1) you&#039;re always churning your bottom-end pubs anyway, and using income from those sales and fresh loans based on securitising your income streams to buy more higher-end pubs, and (2) there&#039;s a constant stream of suckers wanting to run their own pub you can use as cannon-fodder and not care too much what happens to them. 

Now, that last bit started to become less true as the pubcos began to realise that constantly turning over tenants WAS costing them money. And the huge amounts of debt the pubcos built up on the back of over-optimistic forecasts of future income that took no regard of the possibility of a recession is now a serious problem. 

But the Big Six were probably less oppressive towards their tenants in so far as they didn&#039;t have the constant pressing need for income to service huge debts, and they recognised the need to maintain the credibility of their own brand names, which were, after all, on the outside of the pub as well as on the beers inside.

All the same, the integrated brewer/pub model was, economically, entirely artificial, a creation of the limited supply of on-trade outlets caused by the restrictions of the licensing system, and it fell apart remarkably quickly: within a couple of years. But another eight or 10 years further on, of course, and the originally large number of small pubcos had coalesced into two or three giants, whcih was an eventuality I can guarantee you nobody foresaw at the time of the Beer Orders. In fact I&#039;ve just looked out a 4,500-word piece I wrote for the Morning Advertiser in 2004, to mark the 15th anniversary iof the beer orders, and here&#039;s the father of the man who, by coincidence, has just been appointed to run Mitchells &amp; Butler, the pubco remnant of Bass:

&quot;Charles Darby, who was managing director of the Bass Taverns division at the Bass group, Britain&#039;s biggest brewer and second-biggest pub owner in 1989, says today [ie 2004 - MC]: &quot;I don&#039;t think we ever envisaged a pub company growing that large - we thought maybe 2,000 pubs would be the limit – and I don&#039;t think the politicians and the civil servants ever envisaged pub ownership being concentrated in so few hands again. All they wanted to do was to free the tie to the big brewers.&quot;

&quot;I think at Bass we were a fairly enlightened operator in relation to our tenants, we charged what we regarded as a fair rent, and the beer prices were by and large the same as for the free trade. Under the pubcos the whole purchasing scene changed dramatically, and the tenants lost out in a big way.&quot;

And here&#039;s Iain Low of Camra, who would have had a great deal to do with that organisation&#039;s input into the MMC report that sparked the beer orders, again speaking in 2004:

&quot;Naively, Loe says, Camra and other campaigners thought that the independent brewers would buy up chunks of newly-freed big brewers&#039; pubs. Those that did buy &quot;big wodges&quot;, however, such as Devenish, the former West Country brewer, &quot;are no longer with us.&quot; Above all, &#039;nobody foresaw the switch from one complex monopoly to another, with the big brewers keeping their massive market share by offering deep discounts to big pub companies.&#039;&quot;

And here&#039;s the conclusion to that piece from 2004:

&quot;Could the rise of the pubcos have been stopped? Their triumph was actually predicted as long ago as 1950, by a right-wing economist called Arthur Seldon. He foresaw that the growing national brewers with heavily advertised brands would destroy the local monopoly of the small brewer, and place him under intense competitive pressure. &#039;Such competition,&#039; Seldon wrote perceptively, &#039;may lead some small brewers to sell out to the larger; others may attempt to make their houses profitable by turning themselves into … chains of &quot;free&quot; houses and selling the beer in greatest demand.&#039;

&quot;What would then happen, Seldon predicted, was that &#039;Beer would then be supplied by a smaller number of specialist brewers who had disposed of their houses. The industry would then tend to separate into its two parts [pub owners and brewers] as the economic conditions in which the licensing system led to their integration faded away. The controversial &quot;tied house&quot; system might in time come to be recognised as a phase arising from the peculiar social and economic conditions of the 19th century.&#039;

&quot;So, Beer Orders or not, we would still be eventually looking at a situation where brewers with no pubs of their own supplied specialist pub companies. Maybe Lord Young need never have bothered. But at least he gave us wider choice, and the greatest number of operating breweries since Seldon made his predictions.&quot;

And THAT, of course, is still true, with knobs on: when I wrote that piece there were only some 450 new breweries, a figure that has, I don&#039;t need to remind you, more than doubled in eight years. Without the Beer Orders (which were scrapped in 2002), THAT would never have happened.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, indeed: that&#8217;s because Punch and Enterprise are basically about income streams, and the securitisation thereof, where the two most important income streams are rent, and beer bought cheap (from the brewer) and sold (to the tenant) dear. The actual sustainability of any individual pub doesn&#8217;t matter much, because (1) you&#8217;re always churning your bottom-end pubs anyway, and using income from those sales and fresh loans based on securitising your income streams to buy more higher-end pubs, and (2) there&#8217;s a constant stream of suckers wanting to run their own pub you can use as cannon-fodder and not care too much what happens to them. </p>
<p>Now, that last bit started to become less true as the pubcos began to realise that constantly turning over tenants WAS costing them money. And the huge amounts of debt the pubcos built up on the back of over-optimistic forecasts of future income that took no regard of the possibility of a recession is now a serious problem. </p>
<p>But the Big Six were probably less oppressive towards their tenants in so far as they didn&#8217;t have the constant pressing need for income to service huge debts, and they recognised the need to maintain the credibility of their own brand names, which were, after all, on the outside of the pub as well as on the beers inside.</p>
<p>All the same, the integrated brewer/pub model was, economically, entirely artificial, a creation of the limited supply of on-trade outlets caused by the restrictions of the licensing system, and it fell apart remarkably quickly: within a couple of years. But another eight or 10 years further on, of course, and the originally large number of small pubcos had coalesced into two or three giants, whcih was an eventuality I can guarantee you nobody foresaw at the time of the Beer Orders. In fact I&#8217;ve just looked out a 4,500-word piece I wrote for the Morning Advertiser in 2004, to mark the 15th anniversary iof the beer orders, and here&#8217;s the father of the man who, by coincidence, has just been appointed to run Mitchells &amp; Butler, the pubco remnant of Bass:</p>
<p>&#8220;Charles Darby, who was managing director of the Bass Taverns division at the Bass group, Britain&#8217;s biggest brewer and second-biggest pub owner in 1989, says today [ie 2004 - MC]: &#8220;I don&#8217;t think we ever envisaged a pub company growing that large &#8211; we thought maybe 2,000 pubs would be the limit – and I don&#8217;t think the politicians and the civil servants ever envisaged pub ownership being concentrated in so few hands again. All they wanted to do was to free the tie to the big brewers.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;I think at Bass we were a fairly enlightened operator in relation to our tenants, we charged what we regarded as a fair rent, and the beer prices were by and large the same as for the free trade. Under the pubcos the whole purchasing scene changed dramatically, and the tenants lost out in a big way.&#8221;</p>
<p>And here&#8217;s Iain Low of Camra, who would have had a great deal to do with that organisation&#8217;s input into the MMC report that sparked the beer orders, again speaking in 2004:</p>
<p>&#8220;Naively, Loe says, Camra and other campaigners thought that the independent brewers would buy up chunks of newly-freed big brewers&#8217; pubs. Those that did buy &#8220;big wodges&#8221;, however, such as Devenish, the former West Country brewer, &#8220;are no longer with us.&#8221; Above all, &#8216;nobody foresaw the switch from one complex monopoly to another, with the big brewers keeping their massive market share by offering deep discounts to big pub companies.&#8217;&#8221;</p>
<p>And here&#8217;s the conclusion to that piece from 2004:</p>
<p>&#8220;Could the rise of the pubcos have been stopped? Their triumph was actually predicted as long ago as 1950, by a right-wing economist called Arthur Seldon. He foresaw that the growing national brewers with heavily advertised brands would destroy the local monopoly of the small brewer, and place him under intense competitive pressure. &#8216;Such competition,&#8217; Seldon wrote perceptively, &#8216;may lead some small brewers to sell out to the larger; others may attempt to make their houses profitable by turning themselves into … chains of &#8220;free&#8221; houses and selling the beer in greatest demand.&#8217;</p>
<p>&#8220;What would then happen, Seldon predicted, was that &#8216;Beer would then be supplied by a smaller number of specialist brewers who had disposed of their houses. The industry would then tend to separate into its two parts [pub owners and brewers] as the economic conditions in which the licensing system led to their integration faded away. The controversial &#8220;tied house&#8221; system might in time come to be recognised as a phase arising from the peculiar social and economic conditions of the 19th century.&#8217;</p>
<p>&#8220;So, Beer Orders or not, we would still be eventually looking at a situation where brewers with no pubs of their own supplied specialist pub companies. Maybe Lord Young need never have bothered. But at least he gave us wider choice, and the greatest number of operating breweries since Seldon made his predictions.&#8221;</p>
<p>And THAT, of course, is still true, with knobs on: when I wrote that piece there were only some 450 new breweries, a figure that has, I don&#8217;t need to remind you, more than doubled in eight years. Without the Beer Orders (which were scrapped in 2002), THAT would never have happened.</p>
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		<title>By: Wittenden</title>
		<link>http://boakandbailey.com/2012/10/pinning-down-the-big-six/#comment-23333</link>
		<dc:creator>Wittenden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2012 17:36:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boakandbailey.com/?p=6016#comment-23333</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[They used to own the Castle Inn, Bodiam, East Sussex. http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/60475/  , as they had extensive hopgrowing interests in the parish, now sadly no longer. It&#039;s now a Sheps pub, though I haven&#039;t been in for years-can&#039;t remember who owned it then!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They used to own the Castle Inn, Bodiam, East Sussex. <a href="http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/60475/" rel="nofollow">http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/60475/</a>  , as they had extensive hopgrowing interests in the parish, now sadly no longer. It&#8217;s now a Sheps pub, though I haven&#8217;t been in for years-can&#8217;t remember who owned it then!</p>
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		<title>By: Curmudgeon</title>
		<link>http://boakandbailey.com/2012/10/pinning-down-the-big-six/#comment-23320</link>
		<dc:creator>Curmudgeon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2012 15:17:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boakandbailey.com/?p=6016#comment-23320</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s probably fair to say the Big Six had more idea about and feel for pub retailing than the likes of Punch and Enterprise.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s probably fair to say the Big Six had more idea about and feel for pub retailing than the likes of Punch and Enterprise.</p>
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		<title>By: Curmudgeon</title>
		<link>http://boakandbailey.com/2012/10/pinning-down-the-big-six/#comment-23319</link>
		<dc:creator>Curmudgeon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2012 15:16:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boakandbailey.com/?p=6016#comment-23319</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think we would still have seen a large-scale sell-off of the lower-end pubs by the Big Six, and also a growth of &quot;Tap &amp; Spile&quot; type alehouse concepts. It&#039;s even possible that one or more might have completely spilt their brewing and pub owning arms. If it&#039;s no longer possible for your pubs to mostly sell your own products, then the synergy between the two starts to disappear.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think we would still have seen a large-scale sell-off of the lower-end pubs by the Big Six, and also a growth of &#8220;Tap &amp; Spile&#8221; type alehouse concepts. It&#8217;s even possible that one or more might have completely spilt their brewing and pub owning arms. If it&#8217;s no longer possible for your pubs to mostly sell your own products, then the synergy between the two starts to disappear.</p>
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		<title>By: Tandleman</title>
		<link>http://boakandbailey.com/2012/10/pinning-down-the-big-six/#comment-23282</link>
		<dc:creator>Tandleman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2012 08:02:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boakandbailey.com/?p=6016#comment-23282</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Tyson. I have been saying for a long time that we should be careful what we wish for.  They weren&#039;t all bad. OK. Most were.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tyson. I have been saying for a long time that we should be careful what we wish for.  They weren&#8217;t all bad. OK. Most were.</p>
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		<title>By: Bailey</title>
		<link>http://boakandbailey.com/2012/10/pinning-down-the-big-six/#comment-23281</link>
		<dc:creator>Bailey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2012 07:54:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boakandbailey.com/?p=6016#comment-23281</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Which is helpful for our purposes -- a constant strand of &#039;DNA&#039; running through most companies from 1963 until the 1990s makes it a little easier to write about them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Which is helpful for our purposes &#8212; a constant strand of &#8216;DNA&#8217; running through most companies from 1963 until the 1990s makes it a little easier to write about them.</p>
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		<title>By: Tyson</title>
		<link>http://boakandbailey.com/2012/10/pinning-down-the-big-six/#comment-23277</link>
		<dc:creator>Tyson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2012 07:28:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boakandbailey.com/?p=6016#comment-23277</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Interesting that there is a little bit of nostalgia in some quarters towards the Big Six in regards to how they ran the intergrated brewing/pub model.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting that there is a little bit of nostalgia in some quarters towards the Big Six in regards to how they ran the intergrated brewing/pub model.</p>
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		<title>By: Coxy</title>
		<link>http://boakandbailey.com/2012/10/pinning-down-the-big-six/#comment-23243</link>
		<dc:creator>Coxy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2012 16:01:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boakandbailey.com/?p=6016#comment-23243</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Beer orders were a bit of a mess but companies like Bass saw it as a big restriction in that they had to sell pubs and not expand which lead them to sell the breweries and pubs completely. Although not a fan of Punch etc it did lead to more different beers being available now, if Bass and Whitbread etc still had a massive estate where would all the micro breweries sell their beer?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Beer orders were a bit of a mess but companies like Bass saw it as a big restriction in that they had to sell pubs and not expand which lead them to sell the breweries and pubs completely. Although not a fan of Punch etc it did lead to more different beers being available now, if Bass and Whitbread etc still had a massive estate where would all the micro breweries sell their beer?</p>
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