The BBC has released a podcast series, The Good Ship BrewDog, which over the course of six episodes tackles everything from the bro culture at HQ to allegations of bullying and harassment.
This got us talking about BrewDog – what’s their status in the beer world in 2022? And why haven’t we felt moved to boycott them, or remove their bar from our Bristol pub guide?
It turns out we don’t have a neat party line on this and so, for the first time in a while, we thought we’d share something like the raw text of our debate.
Jess
My first question is why exactly the BBC is going into this level of detail about the running of one particular business. There’s some shocking stuff in the podcast but lots of it also just sounds like how a lot of businesses are run.
Ray
I guess it’s partly that it’s a BBC Scotland production. BrewDog is prominent in the UK and worldwide but in Scotland it’s a really significant business. But, yes, I agree that this does feel a bit unusual. Especially when you get five minutes dedicated to James Watts’s annoying ‘Imperial March’ door jingle.
Jess
Yeah, what’s the point there?
Ray
That he’s an autocrat who imposes his will, not a cool team player, I think. The serious stuff is serious, though. The story about the employee being refused a promotion because they thought she might be planning to have a baby–
Jess
Terrible. As in, the very basics of running a proper, compliant business. Amateurish.
Ray
But they’d say – the documentary says this – that it’s just part of “cutting through the red tape”.
Jess
That’s where that whole anti-red-tape populism gets you: discrimination against women and minorities in the name of “just getting it done”.
Ray
So, why don’t we boycott them? I know a lot of our peers are of the view that enough is enough, cut off the supply of cash, stop buying their stuff.
Jess
I definitely think it’s time for the supply of free PR to be cut off, but that’s kind of happened, hasn’t it? When we wrote our chapter on BrewDog in Brew Britannia we felt quite out of step because it was pretty negative.
Ray
It was objective! But it probably did tell a more negative, questioning version of their origin story than was usual at that time. A lot of the same themes as in the documentary: they weren’t poor, they weren’t original, and they lied all the time. Some people were a bit irritated at us for being critical of BrewDog at all.
Jess
Until a couple of years later when, suddenly, we weren’t critical enough! The thing is, I would still rather have more BrewDogs than Heinekens in the market.
Ray
That’s a thing that comes across well in the podcast. There’s a clip of Pete Brown talking about how well the beers did in a blind-tasting back in 2007 or 2009 or whenever it was and it really reminded me how exciting Punk IPA tasted.
Jess
Still does. I’ll die on this hill. It’s a good beer, and consistently good. I’m always happy to drink it.
Ray
So, we don’t boycott them because, first, their influence has been, on balance, positive; and secondly, because the beer is good. Doesn’t sound super convincing.
Jess
In my day job [charity finance] I spend a lot of time thinking about environmental, social and governance (ESG) investing and reporting and it’s always a bit more complicated than “just divest”. You look at a range of things a business does. And individual things that they do badly might not be enough to make you withdraw support. Without in any way condoning James Watts’s behaviour, if BrewDog is genuinely doing the right things on the environment, you might say that gives them credit in the bank. I’m fascinated by their B Corp status.
Ray
Do you think B Corp might be forced to withdraw their endorsement of BrewDog?
Jess
I doubt it. They must have this with a lot of the businesses they work with. It’s about points and thresholds. And it’s been a standard line of attack from the right, and from lobby groups, to try to discredit things like Fair Trade.
Ray
We’ve found one exception, or one bad actor, so the whole thing is pointless!
Jess
Exactly. I’d rather have a system that’s imperfect but moves things forward, or shifts the window, than nothing at all.
Ray
I do struggle with the hypocrisy issue. I don’t really care about companies selling out or selling up – we sort of know that’s the plan, or at least an option, for any serious growth-focused business. But BrewDog has been so insistent on the importance of independence, even after, it turns out, they were actively trying to arrange a sale to Heineken. That is a recurring theme of the podcast: that James Watt will say or do anything to move the business forward.
Jess
The podcast makes it sound as if he’s entered into a Faustian pact with the venture capitalists which is driving a lot of that.
Ray
Back to boycotting, though–
Jess
Who else do we boycott? I try to buy from businesses I think are good, and making a positive contribution. I said I’d rather have more BrewDogs than Heinekens but I’d also rather have more Good Chemistrys than BrewDogs. But we live in the world we live in. We still use Amazon occasionally despite my best efforts. We still shop in the supermarket.
Ray
As it happens, we’ve haven’t been to BrewDog’s bar in Bristol for ages because–
Jess
Partly because we’re trying to support more local companies that we think are making a more positive contribution. But also – It’s always too busy!
Ray
This was a point Martyn Cornell made on Twitter…
…and despite the BBC coverage, despite the total disdain among beer geeks, the shine has not gone off the brand out in the real world.
Jess
Bloody hell, people love BrewDog on LinkedIn. I see James Watt is going to be on Steven Bartlett’s podcast soon.
Ray
He’ll have anyone on – Jordan Peterson!
Jess
Yeah, that bro-y capitalism thing still seems, unfortunately, to have further to run and that’s what puts me off BrewDog the most. That said, I just can’t see a positive in BrewDog crashing and burning. It’s not just about the loss of jobs. It’s the fact that the company is still doing some things that are positive. In particular, the environmental thing. Yes, it’s true to point to flights to Las Vegas as a problem, that hypocrisy again, but if you manage to create an enormous manufacturing plant that is genuinely carbon neutral, that is an impressive feat.
Ray
I guess you might say the important thing is to keep talking critically about BrewDog in particular, and ethics across the industry as whole.
Jess
Especially with people who aren’t totally immersed in the beer world, but are interested.
Ray
Blimey, like religious obsessives, knocking on people’s doors: “Can I share the bad news with you today?”
Jess
Ha ha, no, but just maybe gently correcting the narrative when you see it on social media or it comes up in conversation. BrewDog should not be a go-to example of how to run a business. James Watt should not be an aspirational business-bro pinup.
Ray
And there’s a lesson for drinkers, too – don’t hero worship these people. Don’t be a ‘fan’. You’re just setting yourself up to be let down.
Jess
But having said all that, I’m going to reserve the right to pop into a BrewDog bar every now and then if I feel like it, and to buy a can of Punk if it’s the best option available.
The Good Ship BrewDog is available on all major podcasting platforms and via BBC Sounds in the UK.
7 replies on “BrewDog in 2022: tarnished but complicated”
As so often, I agree with Jess and Ray. I avoid but don’t boycott Brewdog, mainly to buy from smaller breweries. But I’m no (5am) saint. The hypocrisy is a huge issue, as is the bro culture and terrible HR stories. But I wouldn’t want them to go bust.
My non beer geek friends and relatives however don’t really care that much. When I have mentioned the stories, I get the “they’re all probably like that” response. I’d like to think they’re not all like that… It’s the same argument as “the opposition would be just as bad”, and gives companies a free pass.
How dare you be reasonable on the internet, there is no time for nuanced opinions here. For me, I’ve basically stopped going to Brewdog as I am tired of their nonsense but if a mate wanted to go I am not going to complain and insist they listen to a 3 hour long podcast to see if they change their mind. I definitely think their beer is substantially worse than it was 3 or 4 years ago though.
I agree re Punk – a fresh pint on draught (as opposed to a can that’s been on a supermarket shelf for six months) is still pretty good. My local London Spoons does it for £3.49. A pint of something similar – and not necessarily any better, as least as far as my palate is concerned – can be up to £7 in a craft beer bar. I like craft beer bars, but if money is tight, then the Spoons Punk is a great bargain. I think it may be the Nelson Sauvin in the recipe that gives Punk a slight apricoty undertow which I rather like.
Interesting discussion – there are a lot of angles!
I think the quality of the beer is, weirdly, irrelevant – at least, it’s a separate discussion. The definition of a boycott is that you’re deliberately giving up something you’d otherwise choose to have; if BD are worth boycotting, it doesn’t matter if they make the best beer in the world. For what it’s worth I think they make some very solid and interesting beers – and I’ve become a regular visitor to my nearest BD bar, even though the prices are ridiculous.
Independence isn’t really relevant either, at least for as long as BD hang on to it. Once 51% ownership has gone I’ll be keeping a close eye on them – there’s a slippery slope from subsidiary to brand, and quality tends to suffer (remember Sharp’s?). But BD are independent, pretty much; I’m more worried about what’s going to happen to Fuller’s, to Dark Star, and perhaps especially to Magic Rock.
The key point for me is the one about not worshipping these guys (or anyone else in brewing!). James Watt’s personal qualities – whether or not he’s honest, truthful, consistent, reliable, a good colleague etc – matter to me only insofar as (a) they affect people’s lives (e.g. promoting a toxic work culture) or (b) I’ve got an emotional investment in BrewDog. Granted, (b) is true for a lot of people – BD have gone out of their way to encourage it since day one – but it’s passed me by, partly I think because the ‘punk’ rhetoric turned me off.
So the question is whether you care enough about the evidence of people being treated badly at work to boycott BD. To me (on the basis of what I know and the way I feel today) it doesn’t rise to that level. I don’t think there’s a right answer, though – different people will draw different lines. I boycotted Spoons’ for a while – as much over vectoring pandemic denialism as over their pre-lockdown layoffs – and what I remember about that was that there wasn’t much weighing up of pros and cons; my feet just wouldn’t take me into a Spoons’.
Other people may feel that strongly about BD; I don’t rule out feeling that strongly myself in future, if more and worse details come out. But it’s about what they do and how they treat people; i don’t feel that James Watt has let me down, because I don’t feel he ever promised me anything.
Plenty of wise words spoken by both of you.
It’s a moral conundrum. The product is still fundamentally good. Especially in their bars with small batch beers of their own and from other breweries. They are a sizeable employer and in many ways an example of a modern growing Scottish business.
But plenty of concerns over the company culture. And that starts and finishes at the top with James Watt. Failings are well captured and detailed by several prominent voices elsewhere on social media. It’s sad to say I don’t see anything changing as long as JW remains in position. He sets the tone.
The business is big enough to stand on its own two feet now. If it achieves an IPO or buy-out I’d expect JW to be forced out sooner or later. It might lose some of its so called punk ethos at that point but it could go on to thrive.
I work for a B Corp and Jess is exactly right – it’s an accreditation scheme based on achieving certain ESG metrics, reviewed every two years – so it would be a massive surprise if B Corp unilaterally stripped Brewdog of B Corp status. (Brewdog would probably sue!). I imagine though that this is causing headaches at B Corp HQ – Brewdog was seen as a big coup for the movement, but it has at least temporarily backfired. On the plus side, B Corp is quite keen on founder transitions to employee ownership, so maybe that’s in the future.
I find the arguments insufficient apart from the loss of jobs.
Take the pint if you have to, but at this point I wouldn’t go so far as to recommend them but as the last resort at the bottom of the list.
Brewdog certainly don’t need our help to succeed.
Ultimately, to each their own.
The best hope, I guess, is to depose the Jacobite claimant for a younger, more publicly acceptable king. Surely then reform will come.